Development of the new physics for the 1955 mods for F1C

teslaf1electriquepriseX wrote:Development of the new physics for the 1955 mods for F1C (I will add the links later)

First I want to share a big part of the credits about this development with   , whom has developped the brillant "GPL alike" physics for the conversion of the late 60's mods.  I used as a base,  before I modified it for each differents cars of 1955, trying my best to make them accurate with the data that I found, the physics that he have done for the  1967 Lotus 49.

I am not a physician, not a mechanic and I don't consider myself a pro in the developement of cars physics for this game, since there's a lot of parameters that I did'nt considered and modified but I experimented a lot and I try my best to make the cars physics of this wonderful mod more accurate, enjoyable and challenging.

Here, I will give you the links of the newer physics for that mod (this mod, by Luigi70, otherwise is already released, here also is the link, without the new physics) that I currently develop, so you will be able to provide me feedback and, if you want to play with this epic mod, to enjoy it with, I think, much more accurate and challenging physics. Before, I just want to try it at Monza'1955 track (CTD, archive corrupted, see below, last paragraph) to test it on a very fast 1955 track. I would like also to try it at Monaco.

I will discuss about the data, the one that I got and the ones that would be helpful to find. I will resume what I did to develop these physics and tell you the about questions and problems  that I have with it.

First, the french Wikipedia's articles, specific about each GP of 1955 was very helpful, not only to get qualifications laptimes and the results, they're also give, for each races, the bhp/ch of the differents cars, their weight (often) and some others good infos.  I found elsewhere, in differents articles, the top speed of the cars except for the Vanwall (VW55, not VW2 ?!!!), the 2 Connaught B and the Gordini T16.  In some cases, it was not precise or unclear about which evolution of the cars it was provide, I will mention it right here with the links. I did'nt find precise infos about accelerations (0-100, etc...) Don't hesitate to provide me much more pertinent infos! While researching these data, I found some others precious data and infos. Especially for the Mercedes, I found this precious document about the development of the RFactor physic of this car.

With these data, it was at least enough to start the work. First, I putted the value of the cars weight in their respective .hdv files, since it affect both the top speed and the behavior of the cars.

Secondly, I've read that the rear tyres was only  7" large and the front one was 6". In comparison, The Lotus 49 had 13" wide rear wheels and initially 8" wide front, replaced later in the season by 10" wide, its almost half the wide (7/13) for the rear tyres and around 2/3 wide (6/10 or 6/8 for the front tyres). So I cut it proportionaly in the .tbc files, by changing (I multiplied by the ratio that I just mentionned) the data, not not only of the width (it was not so effective) but also the values at the ilnes called  (there's data of 20 lines to change: one for the dry and one for the wet for both Front and Rear Tyres for of each (5) types of Compound, asked me if you want to work on cars physics for F!C and if you don't understand this quick explainations).

As you may know, a big distinction between the 1955 F1 cars and the 60's one is that the olders one had front-engine. I was'nt able to find precise data concerning the weight balance, so I temporarly put it 50/50 (It was set to 60 at the rear and 40 at the front for the Lotus 49) If you find more data or info concerning this, please share it!

At this stage, I was curious to test the behaviour of the car, even if I knew that with the 420-400 ch of 3.0 L Cosworth instead of the 290 ch 2.5 L of the Mercedes, it should had been even much more hard to control this skating beast and even if I knew that there's a lot of others influencial parameters that could had been adjust at this point.

Ok, I will finish this blah-blah later if there's an interest for it. I skipped  the description of hours of development, c'est à dire ajusting the data of many engines,  the tuning to get the top speed accurate which included a lot of testing with differents aerodynamics values and gear setting for each cars and the brakes, all this in consideration of the laptimes for the differents circuits...

At this point of the development...:

The top speed of the differents cars are not perfect but close. Lancia does'nt reached 185 mph (a surprizing data that I read), otherwise, it would had been unbeatable and too quick on lap time. I can try to find a solution, like putting even less brakes (it has already less than the Mercedes). AI cars are a bit faster then me at Mulsanne, I guess it is because I attacked exit of the curve before much slower but may be it is caused by AI parameters (there's no AI files but there's is some parameters to simplified the calcul of in the AI in the .hdv, the .tbc and the engine.ini files. I have still no data about the top speed for the Vanwall VW55, the Connaught B and the Gordini T16. Others data are also imprecise (Mercedes, over 300 km/h ? Is it only the Streamliner? Maserati 290 km/h: Is it with the 250ch or the 270ch that ran only at Monza on all cars? Is it only for the Streamliner? 270 km/h for the Gordini T32, is it for the initial 800kg mastodonte  that ran miserably in 1955 at Monza? )

The chrono at the differents circuits are somewhat close to the real one and seems to respect enough well the relative performance of the differents cars (Lancia and Mercedes are generally quicker that the rest, behind it is very close between the Maserati and the Ferrari 555 or 625 and depending of the track one of them (Maserati or Ferrari) had a little advantage as it should be, the english cars sometimes challenge them quite well, the Gordini T16 can compete with the slowest drivers. The Gordini T32 and Ferrari 500F2 are closing the packs . Since the Vanwall and the Connaught were very light (570kg and 590kg) with 250 ch, to make the Ferrari 555 and Maserati a litlle bit more competitiuve, I put less brake torque (but more durability) on the english cars, which is concordant with a text that was wrote about the victory of Tony Brooks against the Italians cars, at the Syracuse non-championnship F1 race, but I don't know if I handicap to much... I mean, the chronos Ferrari and Maserati were generally faster than the one of the Connaught at Aintree (the only participation of the team in a championship race in 1955) but not at all at Syracuse, where it win the race with Tony Brooks behind the wheel! So I guess I will bring down driver's cornering habilty of the Connaught's driver of Aintree in the drivers folders and put up a little bit the brake. So, that way, if we put Tony Brooks behind the wheel again at Syracuse, well...

Set at 100% for the AI performance:

At Zandvoordt, the faster cars (Mercedes) in the mod was around 1 seconds faster than in the real.  I was able to follow them until I made mistake. The problem is that I do many little mistake! (my controller is the keyboard and I drive these "skating cars" without  driving assistance except for shifting and traction) With the Gordini, my best was 1m49, the other Gordini was around 1m44s

At Aintree, they ran it in 2m3s, so they were 2.5 sec slower. Not ideal but not too bad. I'm not use to this track, I did'nt remember the breaking point, so I went off in the 3 laps that I made...

The version on Spa circuit used in the mod is 1 kilometer too short. The real one was 14.120 km and the one in the mod is 13.200 km, according to the .gdb.  Obviously, my times was too quick and I lost a lots of time stupidly, I knocked my head trying different ways to slowed down the cars on the fast circuits without compromising the top speed and the performance on slowed circuit. It seemed almost impossible at this level, so I finaly checked if the length of the circuits was ok... and it was not. So I can't really test the chronos for 1955 here at Spa actually but that was a lots of fun to race there and I was excited to be able in the Mercedes to follow Kling (Mercedes also) pretty close for a long time, at 100% AI, until I've done some mistakes.

Argentina's track also is not accurate for 1955, since it was 3.910 km and the .gdb indicate 3 345 m

I have CTD at Monza and Monaco, it was written that these files was corrupted when I decompressed the 1955 mod. At Monza, the trace file indicate that a .bmp file was missing in the .mas.  I've checked the .mas, many .bmp was displayed correctly but for many of them, it was only written "(error)". I checked the other PhilRob 60's Monza at Wookey's page and it was a shorter track. So if you can post the good 10km 1955's version of Monza or the 1960_Monzamap.MAS and may be the 1960_Monza.MAS, that would be awsome!

Cristian Luis wrote:

teslaf1electriquepriseX wrote:Development of the new physics for the 1955 mods for F1C (I will add the links later)

First I want to share a big part of the credits about this development with   , whom has developped the brillant "GPL alike" physics for the conversion of the late 60's mods.  I used as a base,  before I modified it for each differents cars of 1955, trying my best to make them accurate with the data that I found, the physics that he have done for the  1967 Lotus 49.

I am not a physician, not a mechanic and I don't consider myself a pro in the developement of cars physics for this game, since there's a lot of parameters that I did'nt considered and modified but I experimented a lot and I try my best to make the cars physics of this wonderful mod more accurate, enjoyable and challenging.

Here, I will give you the links of the newer physics for that mod (this mod, by Luigi70, otherwise is already released, here also is the link, without the new physics) that I currently develop, so you will be able to provide me feedback and, if you want to play with this epic mod, to enjoy it with, I think, much more accurate and challenging physics. Before, I just want to try it at Monza'1955 track (CTD, archive corrupted, see below, last paragraph) to test it on a very fast 1955 track. I would like also to try it at Monaco.

I will discuss about the data, the one that I got and the ones that would be helpful to find. I will resume what I did to develop these physics and tell you the about questions and problems  that I have with it.

First, the french Wikipedia's articles, specific about each GP of 1955 was very helpful, not only to get qualifications laptimes and the results, they're also give, for each races, the bhp/ch of the differents cars, their weight (often) and some others good infos.  I found elsewhere, in differents articles, the top speed of the cars except for the Vanwall (VW55, not VW2 ?!!!), the 2 Connaught B and the Gordini T16.  In some cases, it was not precise or unclear about which evolution of the cars it was provide, I will mention it right here with the links. I did'nt find precise infos about accelerations (0-100, etc...) Don't hesitate to provide me much more pertinent infos! While researching these data, I found some others precious data and infos. Especially for the Mercedes, I found this precious document about the development of the RFactor physic of this car.

With these data, it was at least enough to start the work. First, I putted the value of the cars weight in their respective .hdv files, since it affect both the top speed and the behavior of the cars.

Secondly, I've read that the rear tyres was only  7" large and the front one was 6". In comparison, The Lotus 49 had 13" wide rear wheels and initially 8" wide front, replaced later in the season by 10" wide, its almost half the wide (7/13) for the rear tyres and around 2/3 wide (6/10 or 6/8 for the front tyres). So I cut it proportionaly in the .tbc files, by changing (I multiplied by the ratio that I just mentionned) the data, not not only of the width (it was not so effective) but also the values at the ilnes called  (there's data of 20 lines to change: one for the dry and one for the wet for both Front and Rear Tyres for of each (5) types of Compound, asked me if you want to work on cars physics for F!C and if you don't understand this quick explainations).

As you may know, a big distinction between the 1955 F1 cars and the 60's one is that the olders one had front-engine. I was'nt able to find precise data concerning the weight balance, so I temporarly put it 50/50 (It was set to 60 at the rear and 40 at the front for the Lotus 49) If you find more data or info concerning this, please share it!

At this stage, I was curious to test the behaviour of the car, even if I knew that with the 420-400 ch of 3.0 L Cosworth instead of the 290 ch 2.5 L of the Mercedes, it should had been even much more hard to control this skating beast and even if I knew that there's a lot of others influencial parameters that could had been adjust at this point.

Ok, I will finish this blah-blah later if there's an interest for it. I skipped  the description of hours of development, c'est à dire ajusting the data of many engines,  the tuning to get the top speed accurate which included a lot of testing with differents aerodynamics values and gear setting for each cars and the brakes, all this in consideration of the laptimes for the differents circuits...

At this point of the development...:

The top speed of the differents cars are not perfect but close. Lancia does'nt reached 185 mph (a surprizing data that I read), otherwise, it would had been unbeatable and too quick on lap time, if I reduce the aerodynamics resistance to get it. I can try to find a solution, like putting even less brakes (it has already less than the Mercedes) (and less aero resistance). AI cars are a bit faster then me at Mulsanne, I guess it is because I attacked exit of the curve before much slower but may be it is caused by AI parameters (there's no AI files but there's is some parameters to simplified the calcul of in the AI in the .hdv, the .tbc and the engine.ini files. I have still no data about the top speed for the Vanwall VW55, the Connaught B and the Gordini T16. Others data are also imprecise (Mercedes, over 300 km/h ? Is it only the Streamliner? Maserati 290 km/h: Is it with the 250ch or the 270ch that ran only at Monza on all cars? Is it only for the Streamliner? 270 km/h for the Gordini T32, is it for the initial 800kg mastodonte  that ran miserably in 1955 at Monza? )

The chrono at the differents circuits are somewhat close to the real one and seems to respect enough well the relative performance of the differents cars (Lancia and Mercedes are generally quicker that the rest, behind it is very close between the Maserati and the Ferrari 555 or 625 and depending of the track one of them (Maserati or Ferrari) had a little advantage as it should be, the english cars sometimes challenge them quite well, the Gordini T16 can compete with the slowest drivers. The Gordini T32 and Ferrari 500F2 are closing the packs . Since the Vanwall and the Connaught were very light (570kg and 590kg) with 250 ch, to make the Ferrari 555 and Maserati a litlle bit more competitiuve, I put less brake torque (but more durability) on the english cars, which is concordant with a text that was wrote about the victory of Tony Brooks against the Italians cars, at the Syracuse non-championnship F1 race, but I don't know if I handicap to much... I mean, the chronos Ferrari and Maserati were generally faster than the one of the Connaught at Aintree (the only participation of the team in a championship race in 1955) but not at all at Syracuse, where it win the race with Tony Brooks behind the wheel! So I guess I will bring down driver's cornering habilty of the Connaught's driver of Aintree in the drivers folders and put up a little bit the brake. So, that way, if we put Tony Brooks behind the wheel again at Syracuse, well...

Set at 100% for the AI performance:

At Zandvoordt, the faster cars (Mercedes) in the mod was around 1 seconds faster than in the real.  I was able to follow them until I made mistake. The problem is that I do many little mistake! (my controller is the keyboard and I drive these "skating cars" without  driving assistance except for shifting and traction) With the Gordini, my best was 1m49, the other Gordini was around 1m44s

At Aintree, they ran it in 2m3s, so they were 2.5 sec slower. Not ideal but not too bad. I'm not use to this track, I did'nt remember the breaking point, so I went off in the 3 laps that I made...

The version on Spa circuit used in the mod is 1 kilometer too short. The real one was 14.120 km and the one in the mod is 13.200 km, according to the .gdb.  Obviously, my times was too quick and I lost a lots of time stupidly, I knocked my head trying different ways to slowed down the cars on the fast circuits without compromising the top speed and the performance on slowed circuit. It seemed almost impossible at this level, so I finaly checked if the length of the circuits was ok... and it was not. So I can't really test the chronos for 1955 here at Spa actually but that was a lots of fun to race there and I was excited to be able in the Mercedes to follow Kling (Mercedes also) pretty close for a long time, at 100% AI, until I've done some mistakes.

Argentina's track also is not accurate for 1955, since it was 3.910 km and the .gdb indicate 3 345 m

I have CTD at Monza and Monaco, it was written that these files was corrupted when I decompressed the 1955 mod. At Monza, the trace file indicate that a .bmp file was missing in the .mas.  I've checked the .mas, many .bmp was displayed correctly but for many of them, it was only written "(error)". I checked the other PhilRob 60's Monza at Wookey's page and it was a shorter track. So if you can post the good 10km 1955's version of Monza or the 1960_Monzamap.MAS and may be the 1960_Monza.MAS, that would be awsome!

The real track distance is not indicated in gdb files, but in AIW files.

lap_length=x(xxxx.xxxxxx)

Have you look the data of 1955 engines? Maybe something could be done with PhysicsEditor.

teslaf1electriquepriseX wrote:I'm not familiar with .AIW files editor, can you check it, to see if its differents, for the Spa's and Argentina's 1955 tracks included in the 1955 mods please?

F1CFan1804 wrote:I always wondered why Spa was so feared, when it's this easy and boring to drive. I'd never bothered to check the differences between the real layout and the F1C layout, which does explain a lot